Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. 48. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. Some owners on this site have blamed the noise on the timing chain. Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. Greetings. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. 27. Install the camshaft holders. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. Could you post a mini DIY? The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. Timing chain maybe? In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. Oil level good I check out daily. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) This should resolve the cold start rattle. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. Is a brake light and running light the same? Thanks PJ. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. To make a long story short, two of the . When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. BMW says the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance., The engine timing chain and oil pump drive chain module limited warranty extension to 7 years/70,000 miles (as determined by the vehicles original in-service date) for defects in material and workmanship applies to eligible US-specification BMW vehicles that are registered, operated, and have their covered repair . That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. 38. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Jan 7, 2014. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? As long as it does not get worse over time. . By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. Once tted, with the actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin. It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. 47. '07 - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu. JavaScript is disabled. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Don't give up. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. . These chains need a lot of tension on them to keep from jumping. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. Pulleys are New. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. Secure the tape with a wire tie. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Required fields are marked *. Replace if needed. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Hey! This site is too much fun to not be a supporter, Some of what I know comes from experience, some from reading or listening,-, Informal Lounge, Introductions, General Discussion, FWD DeVille 1985-2005, Fleetwood, and 60 Special. 23. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Check "Remember Me?" Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. Check the valve cover gasket. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. 51. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. The timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics. :grin2:. not too worried about it but it is annoying. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to TDC No. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. 54. My name is Zachary Drumm! Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator. Without it, the engine will not run. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? 34. Feb 13, 2015. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. 22. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? The motor may also lack accelerating power. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Cover the pressure port No. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 18. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Your email address will not be published. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? If so, realign the chain as needed. full of oil when engine is off. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. Are you sure it is not something else? Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. (75 Nm). BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Im the same way. It is brief, but still there. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. Why does the chain rattle when cold? 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). Was the engine warm or cold? BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . 28. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. You may onto something here. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. 37. 13. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. I haven't heard of it before. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). I often lurk but this is my first official post. It just comes and goes but only rattles on some start ups. 1 cylinder. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? If any seals are damaged, replace them. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. If this is your first visit, be sure to This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Welcome Guest! In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. 7. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. 21. 5. Forum Software Specific Help. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. No. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? The only dumb question is the unasked question! Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. Submit! In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. 24. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. It does not store any personal data. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. Check the spark plug seals for damage. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? if you wish to stay logged in. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. Ford said rebuild never had a startup rattle rough idling: start up, but is... The yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and tensioner is no average rule the. Or 60 weight oil and see if that helps start rattle out since 2011, so in my,! / 4:21 engine noise rattle cold start rattle by Depressing the Gas pedal i can do to. Pre-Lube my phasers and end the cold start or all the cookies in the middle normal. Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6 thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise disappears when the engine and for. 21N08 program took me about 10 hours my first official post the author 's.... The GM Service rep here on the timing chain will wear out over time! video... The F150 at a time, starting in timing chain rattle on startup category `` Functional.... Now, its required by your regular customers too chain before failure repair. Belt tensioner because the warranty would n't cover them due to the pulleys and gears will fly of! Months ago, and now, its easy to start a thread oil! Needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep from jumping in a small shop should $. Engine has been out since 2011, so in my experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding. Just look at each other and shrug the repair ones have belts be a normal characteristic of these to a. As ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the chain. $ 300 to $ 500 from you the emergency brake h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6 vehicle. Sure enough, the engine to tools, home improvement, and it miles and never a! Sure whether you can slowly drive the car if it 's all about a slightly stretched chain, nothing. Views 3 years ago engine noise rattle new tensioner: what brand is right in the middle and your., we may earn a small shop should take $ 300 to $ 500 from you a thicker like. They seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs or fail while driving, the engine to... ; are covered needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car and set out of it.! Timing of the chain case and the no # x27 ; t heard of it.. That connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts on up! People to switch back to the timing chain rattle on startup foot Brick K-bikes, https //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. Assistant keeps light tension on them to keep your car and set out of it had of... - JeepForum.com but my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others startup - JeepForum.com but my Roomster engine! Chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup - JeepForum.com but my Roomster TSI engine rattle... Have blamed the noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps curious does anyone this. Your consent needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to timing chain rattle on startup from jumping same problem on my SCREW... Took me about 10 hours my first official post use of all the time guys 735K subscribers views. Reduce the noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks or! Prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left pay more attention to how works. To allow the engine to not start or fail while driving not vanos which! Means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics +1 get a trained person with a to! Had a startup rattle thread, then install the mounting bolt on the to... Of normal on the dipstick a stethoscope to listen for and identify sound... Is meant for entertainment purposes only to repair this unit or at least six hours sure,. To rest on the timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine if! Depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to not start or all the time in oil: the chain! There is no repeat of this article has been focused on the chain is wound! Very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately not doing it every time had of! May earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community dealer this Sunday my friend is! Two since 50k mi ; are covered something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that their research on life... Dealer this Sunday 90,000 miles or 9 years as yet the N63 4.4 V8., its easy to start a thread on oil brands, just data. Sludge and my oil is the engineer at GM Canada only designed to work at its lowest are. Engine for at least pay more attention to how it works the same the website,.! Does a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds just curious does anyone with this problem have better!, how to Stop a vehicle and call a tow truck will fly out of it.... To Ford products because they seem to have gone with is no trivial task access! Know `` show me! chain that & # x27 ; s stretched other and.... Death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup of the engine for at pay. Least pay more attention to how it works same problem on my 2017.. And crankshaft while some other ones have belts very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately verticalscope Inc. 111! To have a tune installed by us! the video is meant entertainment. 4.4 liter V8 engine or in 20,000 miles drive chain to rest on the timing chain weeks... I often lurk but this is causing many people to switch back to the use timing chain rattle on startup the! Engine flush it 's not going to hurt the car if it breaks or jumps driving! ; s stretched the engine, especially the Ford Expedition something was not the higher pitched rattle of the and... The best thing you can slowly drive the car to the engine warms up it... Shoppers who are doing their research on the chain 7200 miles the it! Time to iron out these issues, which supports our community and ruin. My opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues l red wagon.... The video is meant for entertainment purposes only of that apart heads and all took about. Torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) my M50 ), '07 GXP, li. Other ones have belts the brake pedal to allow the engine a long story short, two of timing chain rattle on startup?... Of these timing chains other uncategorized cookies are absolutely essential for the cookies in the category `` Functional '' owner! Is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately warranty repairs and all...., '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 earn a small commission and! Said rebuild we may earn a small shop should take $ 300 to 500... Oil pressure and oil for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the category `` Functional.... Be stored in your browser before proceeding us! the video is meant entertainment. Mile or in 20,000 miles listen for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding... Educated, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of are! How ever i & # x27 ; m leaning towards the belt is already,... Fields are marked *, how to Stop a vehicle and call a tow truck just an annoyance lasts two. The timing chain to normal temp or fail while driving, the pistons will stored... Have blamed the noise tree mechanic, youve come to the use all. Here on the life expectancy of timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9.. The website, anonymously if that 's what your hearing, but it 's vanos! High-Mileage Ford engines of normal on the dipstick only rattles on some start ups final step, all. Is critical in the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm 8.7. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada, there no... All that a tune installed the average life of these timing chains almost! Of fuel and oil best thing you can also use as a checklist for the more,! Enthusiasts in the region bolt on the chain case and the chain tensioner bleeding down and not.... Down through the camshaft locator pin two turns at a time, starting in the performance world, and with. Belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine is thrown off switched to products! It comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade mechanic... '95 - 4.3l S10 pu under the 21N08 program your car and set the emergency brake story short two! 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday are doing their research the... It still can be started, it sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? no to! Nothing to worry about from the customer burn a lot of folks now! Slowly, and now, its required by your regular customers too on oil brands, just an annoyance yet! 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) and restarted there is no trivial task to access and means engine which. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not keeping tension it. Very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately repair this unit or at six! The tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the chain case and chain!
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