No, he was free from sin, but he still had a mortal human nature that could be subject to death. A Real Ale Loving Scottish Crime Writer. They can live out the gospel teaching in their unique holy family. After all Ive done for you, and you just sit there, you watch this, you dont click that thumbs up button. GANYARD: It sure is, George. Both conditions were initially treatable, but he declined treatment. One, ones natural sister, such as a sister of the same parents or a half sister or, two, a believing sister, such as a Christian sister. May 31, 2022. Because once again, not every truth of the faith, not every truth about first century life, for example, has been handed down to us. Overview. Gov. Well, not necessarily. Well, the kinsfolk, you can have relatives that dont know very much about you or misunderstand you. Because they have the same father but different mothers. Mounce writes, Nicodemus politely says Jesus is a teacher; but when Nicodemus does not understand the necessity of a spiritual rebirth, Jesus questions his status as the teacher, an authoritative rabbi (A Teacher or The Teacher?). Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. But while infants may not have committed a personal sin, they still need salvation in Christ because they inherited original sin. Trent, do you want to start or do you want me to answer that first? Probably not like any other piece of wood. If you guys could try to keep your answers to about two minutes each. And at basic, psalms 69, if you continue reading, it says that the Messiah was taking on the reproach of other people. So at an early age, I think about around age three. But if we just read Scripture and read it fairly and charitably, theres nothing that contradicts, so far, Mary being mother of God, ever Virgin, or being immaculately conceived. Can a conclusion be infallible if the underlying logic is false? In his study of Josephus and the Hebrew canon, Jonathan Campbell points out that the roughly contemporaneous text of 4 Ezra assumes the existence of ninety-four Jewish scriptures. As Trent Horn shared with Matt Fradd on Sips with Aquinas Ooh. One, the sole non-falsifiable and fallible authority of the Roman Catholic church, sola ecclesia, which teaches these Marian Dogmas versus a sole infallible authority of scripture sola scriptura, which contradicts them. So when does Marion devotion turn into idolatry? He was a key contributor in the Bills comeback win against the Houston Oilers, in which Buffalo rallied from a 32-point deficit[2] to complete the largest comeback victory in NFL history. No, it doesnt. I would like to demand that everybody hit that like button right now. Christian authors, however, never present a list of inspired books written before the time of Christ that matches the Protestant Old Testament canon. I have also appeared several Timothy Michael Law, who serves as the co-editor of the Oxford Handbook on the Septuagint, says the deuterocanonical books were included in the Septuagint and that it would also be mistaken to imagine that they have never been read as divine Scripture.. So lets just stick to scripture. Were going to move to Trent now for his 15 minute opening. Thank you very much, Trent. We use Christian Apologetics to discuss, interview, & debate for God's existence, & Christianity. Just a shameless plug, like I said, Im an author of two books. So whenever you are ready, Ill click the timer. Steve Christie Co-founder at Provizio; Accident Prevention Technology Belfast Metropolitan Area Proviz.io, +2 more Queen's University Belfast Steve Christie Advisor - Halliburton Consulting. Okay. Steve said that if Mary and Joseph had remained virgins, they would violate late St. Pauls teaching about marriage in First Corinthians Seven. The question for Joseph-. Yeah. Yet evidence of her sinful nature was her lack of exemption of the temporal penalty of death passed on to her from Adams. He offered them in the debate. But its still the first movie. Finally, Christies Pharisee argument for the Protestant Old Testament canon fails because its logic can be used to make a similar argument for a completely different Old Testament canon. Maybe a little too much. Being sinful is saying that you have inherited original sin and becoming sin means that sin was imputed to you. Thank you and God bless everyone. But there are many problems with this speculative argument. But it doesnt demand for that though. And Steve, stick around because Ive got one final question for both of you, but I wanted to say two things before I do that. As I showed earlier, you have people like Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, who were firmly I would not call them Catholic. Jesus does not rebuke her. When Trent tries to use this argument, hes using a logical fallacy referred to as the argument by exception. Dear catholic.com visitors: This Catholic Answers website, with all its free resources, is the worlds largest source of explanations for Catholic beliefs and practices. By contrast, some quoted Sirach as a book of Scripture, though it was eventually excluded. He had cancer and heart disease. Okay. Massive thanks to those who support us at locals and on Patreon. And the issue too, is it discusses the word ipsum as opposed to ipsa, when it says from Genesis 15, if she will bruise the heel, or his heel will be versed, however its actually worded. And I could talk about what that verse means in a lot of different context, but what is the difference between being sinful and becoming sin? This is the number one downloaded Catholic app in the app store, and it is the best app Ive ever used ever. The Story of Reality: Apologist Greg Koukl Discusses His New Book. No one ever says the gift of prophecy or divine revelation had returned after being absent for several centuries. Man commits idolatry when he honors and reviews a creature in place of God. It can also refer to a half sibling as well, such as in the Old Testament, the word for brother is used to refer to Ruben as being the brother of his half brothers. And I think that in general, those arguments arent very strong, but in some cases, saying that something is fitting can point us in that direction. Other arguments, I think are bad, the claim that Mary had to be immaculately conceived because Jesus could not be conceived within a woman who is sinful. They also didnt believe the Gospels or other New Testament documents were inspired, so they dont have a great track record when it comes telling us what is and isnt Scripture. And I would also address that Luke actually specifically states that it is a salutation. Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. Id probably enjoy Polycarp. First Corinthians 15 talks about heavenly bodies and that Mary is given Well, I think what Steve was saying here is that, okay, well, Mary had an earthy body. So probably honestly that one. I dont think he could do that. While the New Testament does use different Greek words translated until to refer to the condition continuing after the event, such as [foreign language 00:02:21] on its own, [foreign language 00:02:25] is never used once this way in the entire New Testament. Yeah. Okay. So I think Catholics have a way to honor Mary as the mother of God without divinizing her. People are familiar with this one about why Protestant Bibles are smaller. Tweet: 0 replies, 655 views. Well, first of all, I would say that I disagree with Trent as a Catholic as how you define the word church, that in Roman Catholicism church is defined specifically as the Pope of the magisterium, and then when you get baptized in the church, you become part of that. Coming to the industry in 1990, he soon discovered that the practice of Real Estate by most was not at the level of professionalism that he had envisioned. I had mentioned about the immaculate conception not being declared ex cathedra because this was before Vatican I in 1870 that declared that when a Pope declared something ex cathedra, then its considered infallible. I already addressed Psalm 65, but Steve said, Well, the sins were applied to Jesus in a non-literal way. Right, but notice what it says in Psalm 69:5 of the Messiah, Oh God, thou knowest my folly. So do it. A Facebook "Dialogue" With Baptist Author Steve Christie. Its also been mirrored on my channel, you can go and check that out. And these brothers still struggle on the same land 3,800 years later. He rejected that dogma, though he did not believe Matthew 1:25 proved it. Well, in my own personal journey of faith, I think I had some difficulties with the immaculate conception of Mary and Marys bodily assumption, but I think I was able to move through those difficulties by broadening my understanding of what is the ultimate source of authority for Christians that its not Sola scriptura because the Bible itself doesnt even teach that. She's on Steve Korrnacki show making excuses to end the Bridgegate commitee investigation she's obviously a Christie apologist . But the only thing we should offer on an altar is the body and blood of Jesus Christ, the lamb of God that he has given to us at Calvary. Okay. Youre talking about giving someone salvation prior to their sins? I put you on the spot with that, so theres no worries. But when we look at something like Strongs for example, are you aware that Strongs defines adelphos and adelphe the same way? Matthew was simply not concerned with telling us what did happen after Jesus was born. And it all goes down to the authority of Scripture. This contradicts the last dogma of the Bodily Assumption of Mary to Heaven infallibly defined ex cathedra by Pope Pius the 12th in 1950, which states after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven, which strongly implies she died first. As the Protestant scholar J.N.D. Does the Bible ever say Mary was not assumed into heaven? I would love to have Augustine or Aquinas come down to my parish and give a talk or be a pastor there. Those are both problematic. Sure. When we talked about there being universal truths about sin, we both agreed on that. He has authored over 170+ books.Andrews is the Chief Translator of the Updated American Standard Version (UASV). Can a person with a human nature die even if they are free from sin? Some people dont die at all. So Steve even admits that Jesus is an exception to the claims about the universality of sin. Jesuss kin in Nazareth did not fully understand his status as the Messiah. You answer that and then Ill ask Steve the next question. Mary was able to do something that Jesus didnt. Well, I would say that it contradicts it because if she was indeed sinless, Mary would not have been bodily assumed into heaven for the reasons I stated in my opening statement. That was a really well articulated opening statement and I appreciate it. In that day, you will surely die. Which he eventually did. And also Greek scholars do not rule that out. Just today, Hallow uploaded my Lo-Fi music to their app. And again, what I argued is how adelphi is used consistently in the New Testament Greek, not how its used in a Greek translation of the Old Testament. Also the Greek word for brother, its not always you to represent full brothers. You can finish your thought, if you want real quick, Steve. Do Protestants Have the Correct Old Testament Canon Trent Horn Vs Steve Christie Debate, The Canon of Scripture Debate Part 1 Gary Michuta (Catholic) vs. Steve Christie (Protestant), Why Protestant Bibles Are Smaller with Steve Christie. That she was conceived without original sin? In fact, as Baptist scholar Lee Mcdonald points out, the book of Malachi only implores its listeners to remember the law of Moses, which would be strange if there were a fixed set of writings established by Ezra called the prophets at this time. Discover Geoffrey Stephen "Steve" Christie 's Biography, Age, Height, Physical Stats, Dating/Affairs, Family and career updates. This question is for Steve from super chat megentlevolp. So then it isnt literally saying every single human has sinned or every man has sinned. No, the Bible never says Mary gave birth to anyone else and no one else is called a son or daughter of Mary. That rather, theres nothing in there to preclude people being assumed body and soul into heaven, including Mary. The proclamation on Marys immaculate conception says that the fathers unanimously believe that which is false. No, Bauckham talks about this in his article that in some context, Jesus would be referred to as the son of Joseph, especially among those who were not familiar with his family life in Nazareth. Good, because you know what? The danger of submitting to this fallible authority extends to submitting to their authority of their unbiblical view of salvation of infusion of grace through the sacraments, which also contradicts Scripture, which teaches justification by imputation of grace by faith alone. And we have to ask yourself, is there anything in the Bible that states that in order to be saved, you have to believe in these dogmas? Which church father would you want to preach at your church? Because the word adelphi would imply that they Its normal use would be that you have the same parents, at least one of the same parents. Although the Pharisees had authority regarding ritual practices, they did not have doctrinal authority over other Jews, including those who came to believe Jesus was the messiah. I want to comment on his use of the word veneration. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management 631-755-8843. [3] Christie was activated to play on July 7, 2007 against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. We see this in Zechariah 12:10, where it talks about, They look on him who theyve pierced. So it is quite shocking. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. Just as eating from the tree of life wouldve resulted in Adam physically living forever likewise, Adam, eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, result put into him physically dying. If Luke was communicating Jesus was Marys only child, he wouldve used the Greek word [foreign language 00:04:55] translated only begotten, rather than [foreign language 00:04:57] like he did elsewhere in his gospel, such as in Luke 7:12, 8:42 and 9:38.And in John 3:16, where Jesus is the only begotten son of God, meaning the only one. Okay. Im really enjoying this. Really enjoying this. It is forbidden to any man to change this, to oppose and counter it. The second best result is Steven Luke Christie age 40s in New Hyde Park, NY in the Garden City Park neighborhood. Okay. I thought about writing a book on-. So Im not going to comment on that. Back to top Alert abuse. Lets talk about the perpetual virginity of Mary. So this first question is for both of you, well start with Trent and then Steve, this comes from Estaban. Okay, so now we are going to move into 10-minute rebuttals. Okay. Steve Hays (1959-2020) We just learned that Steve Hays has passed away in a hospice. And hes not. Mary doesnt take the place of Christ. Yet many Protestants believe in this doctrine. I do talk about this in my book and there, I note that its used differently than in Sirach 18:17, where the word is also used in those situations. Im not alone in believing this. Posts about Steve Jobs written by Christian Apologist. Christiaan Kappes. Suppose we discovered the actual cross Jesus had been crucified on. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. I would say that this is a really important question and one for us to look at, that for Protestants and Catholics to have dialogue with one another and to get closer to the truth, I think its huge to be able to move from And what this debate is about, is about do these beliefs contradict Scripture? If she was immaculately conceived, she would not have bodily assumed needed to be rescued from death because thats the purpose of assumption, which we see from Enoch and Elijah. Theres no worries Trent and then Ill ask Steve the next question about Protestant! 3 ] Christie was activated to play on July 7, 2007 against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats of! An exception to the authority of Scripture with a human nature that could be subject to death human. The Chief Translator of the Updated American Standard Version ( UASV ) used.! Had remained virgins, they look on him who theyve pierced counter it say... Forbidden to any man to change this, you can go and check that out be! 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